we couldn't get gasoline for the indispensable vehicles that get us to work, get us to the supermarket, get us to our sick friends or neighbors. i mean, the point i'm trying to make is we are all the fossil fuel industry, are we not? naomi klein: you know, we often hear that. we often hear that we're all equally responsible for climate change. and that it's just the rules of supply and demand. >> i have two cars. i keep them filled with gasoline. >> i think the question is if there was a fantastic public transit system that really made it easy for you to get to where you wanted to go, would you drive less? i don't know about you, but i certainly would. >> i mean, i use the subways all of the time. >> if it was possible to recharge an electric vehicle and if it was as easy to fill up your car with gasoline, if that electricity came from solar and wind, would you, insist? no, i want to fill my car with dirty energy. no, i don't think you would. >> we are willing to make changes, you know? we recycle and we compost. we ride bicycles. there's actually been a tremendous amount of willingnes